Big Zoo

Zoos and surveillance.

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Big Zoo
windowseat

the park shut in 1998. this was filmed last week.

Larkfield. I was waiting for a bus on the main road. I thought it was one of the statues until it turned.

I have not been inside. The entrance in the video is boarded up.

rustred
Collapse or expand reply by rustred

It moves right at the end. I thought the whole thing was a still

29points
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halfstep
Collapse or expand reply by halfstep

Closure notice. Says the animals were being transferred

25points
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sidechannel
Collapse or expand reply by sidechannel

It still has the road in front of it. The road didn't close

18points
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mothproof
Collapse or expand reply by mothproof

Does somebody else use the land now?

22points
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windowseat
Collapse or expand reply by windowseat

No idea. That's why I posted it

15points
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ribbedglass
Collapse or expand reply by ribbedglass

That is worse somehow

17points
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metricsea
Collapse or expand reply by metricsea

The turn could have been added. Do you have anything longer?

9points
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windowseat
Collapse or expand reply by windowseat

It starts while I'm filming the entrance. There isn't a cut. This is what I took

12points
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teaspoon
Collapse or expand reply by teaspoon

I remember the gift shop. Never thought about what was behind that gate afterwards

8points
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northwindow
Collapse or expand reply by northwindow

The position is the stop on the public road. You can see the sign at the beginning.

7points
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teaspoon
Collapse or expand reply by teaspoon

someone tell Voss this park has been closed for years

2points
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Big Zoo
ribbedglass

that’s my mum talking. she wasn’t there that day.

The park used a picture of us in its visitor leaflet. I followed the film link beside it and that’s my mum telling me the blue bag is under the pushchair.

I checked my own phone clip from our visit. Same words, same voice. We never sent it to them and nobody asked us. Their film says it’s from the following Friday. We went on Sunday.

I’m not uploading my kid’s voice here. This is the frame from their leaflet and the film link.

A family beside the enclosure, seen from an elevated position inside it.

Video unavailable ·

Visitor leaflet
Visitor leaflet with the same saved photograph.Enlarge image ↗
teaspoon
Collapse or expand reply by teaspoon

I can hear somebody say blue bag under the music

17points
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ribbedglass
Collapse or expand reply by ribbedglass

yes that's her. the music isn't in my clip

13points
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cansleeve
Collapse or expand reply by cansleeve

Even if it was an ordinary camera, why is your mum's voice in their advert?

27points
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ribbedglass
Collapse or expand reply by ribbedglass

Exactly. I never sent them that recording

19points
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rustred
Collapse or expand reply by rustred

The picture is from inside the enclosure. Look where you are standing

24points
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mothproof
Collapse or expand reply by mothproof

There could be a fixed camera on the building. You can't get its position exactly from one frame

14points
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flatlander
Collapse or expand reply by flatlander

The signs probably say they film people

8points
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metricsea
Collapse or expand reply by metricsea

An advert is a different use. The question isn't whether a camera was visible

16points
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halfstep
Collapse or expand reply by halfstep

Video won't load now

4points
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ribbedglass
Collapse or expand reply by ribbedglass

Same here. The picture is still on the leaflet. I saved that

6points
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mothproof
Collapse or expand reply by mothproof

The old link is unavailable. I heard it on Tuesday, before anybody starts saying it was always a dead player.

3points
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Big Zoo
rustred

why are they always in the places that have giraffes?

The habitat section is short, but it is asking the question the longer replies keep avoiding. Hot conditions exist in many places. The sightings stay concentrated in places where there is already an explanation for a giraffe being there.

If temperature is the explanation, why does the explanation need a separate list of permitted places?

cansleeve
Collapse or expand reply by cansleeve

Temperature is not the only condition in a habitat. Food, water and other animals matter.

10points
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rustred
Collapse or expand reply by rustred

Then the descriptions should stop beginning and ending with the temperature.

17points
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brickwork
Collapse or expand reply by brickwork

When there is one somewhere else it is described as an escape. That puts it back inside the zoo explanation even while it is outside the zoo.

24points
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metricsea
Collapse or expand reply by metricsea

No report and no animal are not the same observation. But I agree that a map of reported sightings would be more useful than repeating “Africa”.

12points
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windowseat
Collapse or expand reply by windowseat

And put ticketed places on that map differently. It is still a claim about where somebody was allowed to look.

8points
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kestrel
Collapse or expand reply by kestrel

Are we counting places without them, or places nobody here has checked? Those are not the same list.

6points
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Big Zoo
indexcard

they were writing down conversations at the gardens

I found this while looking through the old exhibition reports. The police used private conversations in an investigation, and some of the people they went after had not even been at the gardens. Whole report.

cansleeve
Collapse or expand reply by cansleeve

So where was the microphone?

18points
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indexcard
Collapse or expand reply by indexcard

The police wouldn't identify it in this report

6points
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rustred
Collapse or expand reply by rustred

They put other names on the list. Even their own recording wouldn't account for that

20points
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mothproof
Collapse or expand reply by mothproof

It doesn't say there was a sound recording. Somebody may have been listening and writing

11points
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rustred
Collapse or expand reply by rustred

That doesn't make adding the names any better

9points
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metricsea
Collapse or expand reply by metricsea

I keep seeing this cropped at the certificate. The families at the bottom are the reason for the hearing

12points
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indexcard
Collapse or expand reply by indexcard

I've left the full page in

8points
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teaspoon
Collapse or expand reply by teaspoon

Was there another report after it?

4points
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indexcard
Collapse or expand reply by indexcard

Not one I've found yet. There are other papers from the same incident.

5points
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nailbrush
Collapse or expand reply by nailbrush

is that the same Edwin Voss from the circus paper?

4points
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rustred
Collapse or expand reply by rustred

Maybe. I still want to know who added the names of people who weren't at the gardens.

4points
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Big Zoo
vellum

why does the zoo argument end with giraffes?

The Oregon Zoo argument spends most of its space on commercial incentives, conservation language and government support, then ends with “Giraffes.” I do not read that last word as a change of subject. It is asking why the animal is allowed to stay outside the discussion about the institution displaying it.

People argue about whether a zoo is a business or a conservation project as though choosing the correct description would settle everything inside it. I want to know why that choice is enough to stop the animal being questioned.

rustred
Collapse or expand reply by rustred

The last word is doing a lot of work precisely because nobody wants it in the accounts. They will discuss the cost of the giraffe. They will discuss the value of the giraffe. The giraffe itself is the one settled item.

15points
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vellum
Collapse or expand reply by vellum

Yes. Everything around it is open to negotiation, including the explanation for why we should pay to see it. I do not think the thing in the middle deserves an automatic exemption.

10points
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cansleeve
Collapse or expand reply by cansleeve

This is close to what I meant in the state discussion. The argument begins when the institution gets to decide which question counts as reasonable.

16points
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mothproof
Collapse or expand reply by mothproof

I came back to this because the other threads keep treating the zoo as a neutral place to check the claim. That is the assumption being argued over here. Sending someone back to the enclosure does not answer it.

9points
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marl
Collapse or expand reply by marl

Commercial income and conservation are not necessarily incompatible. You have not established a contradiction just by putting the two descriptions next to each other.

8points
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vellum
Collapse or expand reply by vellum

I am not saying any income disproves conservation. I am saying that conservation becomes a reply to questions which were about the income. The reply changes what we are looking at.

13points
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brickwork
Collapse or expand reply by brickwork

And the animal makes that change easy. Asking whether it is helping conservation sounds less hostile than asking what the display is selling.

12points
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nailbrush
Collapse or expand reply by nailbrush

A display selling tickets is not enough to establish a fabricated animal. That is the step I do not find in the financial argument.

6points
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flatlander
Collapse or expand reply by flatlander

It is not being offered alone. The climate claim asks what accepting the animal does to the picture of its environment. This one asks what accepting it does to the picture of the institution.

14points
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metricsea
Collapse or expand reply by metricsea

Those can be related suspicions and still need separate evidence. Adding the reasons people might want a thing to be accepted does not tell us whether the thing is false.

7points
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teaspoon
Collapse or expand reply by teaspoon

Does Voss get a cut of the tickets or is that a separate conspiracy

3points
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Big Zoo
sidechannel

the height is doing two jobs

Big Brother makes more sense to me than the neck arguments. People get distracted by whether the animal is convenient for drinking. The head gives a view over people who are looking at the body.

Even if you think the rest of the page is wrong, the public is already used to treating that height as something pleasant to stand under. That is an unusually good place to put observation equipment.

wrenched
Collapse or expand reply by wrenched

Every reply says a normal camera would be easier. A normal camera also looks like a camera.

9points
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cansleeve
Collapse or expand reply by cansleeve

A camera that turns its whole neck would be conspicuous. Unless people had already decided that turning a neck was normal.

7points
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flatlander
Collapse or expand reply by flatlander

It would not need to record everything. Knowing who stops and who comes back could be useful on its own.

15points
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moth
Collapse or expand reply by moth

Tall enough to look at us over whatever fence they put around it.

5points
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marl
Collapse or expand reply by marl

A high place where equipment could fit is not evidence that equipment is there.

4points
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sidechannel
Collapse or expand reply by sidechannel

I said it was a good place. The fact people like looking up at it is part of the opportunity.

12points
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Big Zoo
halfstep

how is the giraffe supposed to change an election?

I had remembered The Democratic Party as a claim about a party inventing an animal. The actual paragraph has a more specific mechanism: opponents go hunting “instead of voting”. That is a claim about taking voters away, not winning their agreement.

There is a difference between persuading somebody that an animal exists and persuading them that antagonizing the other party is more urgent than the election. Which part are people defending?

rustred
Collapse or expand reply by rustred

The second part. A distraction does not have to make you like the people arranging it. It can make you dislike them enough to spend the day doing something else.

14points
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marl
Collapse or expand reply by marl

Then the day matters. A hunting trip at any other time does not replace a vote.

7points
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brickwork
Collapse or expand reply by brickwork

So would planning the trip. The paragraph is describing where the opponents put their effort, not necessarily one morning with everyone leaving at once.

11points
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halfstep
Collapse or expand reply by halfstep

It says “instead of voting”, though. Losing time and losing a vote are different effects. I do not want to defend a smaller claim while keeping the large result.

9points
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teaspoon
Collapse or expand reply by teaspoon

The animal-rights part explains the provocation. If the opponents go after the animal to make a point, they have let the other party choose what the point is about.

12points
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wrenched
Collapse or expand reply by wrenched

That would make the rights campaign useful even to somebody who did not care about the animal. It supplies a thing the opponent can be seen attacking.

8points
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cansleeve
Collapse or expand reply by cansleeve

And a person who sets out to antagonize you does not usually check whether you benefit from being antagonized. I recognize that part of the proposed strategy.

10points
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halfstep
Collapse or expand reply by halfstep

What I want to know is whether the vote is supposed to disappear because the person is absent, or because the hunt has become the whole political argument. We are still giving two explanations for one “instead”.

7points
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metricsea
Collapse or expand reply by metricsea

I would still need numbers before accepting the electoral result. How many people have to choose the hunt, and where are their votes being lost?

6points
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windowseat
Collapse or expand reply by windowseat

getting somewhere to hunt a giraffe sounds like a considerable commitment. it is not the sort of errand you fit in before voting.

13points
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nailbrush
Collapse or expand reply by nailbrush

The scale cuts both ways. A difficult trip might keep someone away longer; it might also mean very few people go. Those do not cancel each other without figures.

5points
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Big Zoo
cansleeve

the part about everyone taking photographs

I went back to Role of the State. The bit about a crowd photographing the thing that is watching them is still the strongest part. It makes more sense to me than trying to calculate what a neck should weigh.

marl
Collapse or expand reply by marl

You can photograph something that is photographing you

5points
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cansleeve
Collapse or expand reply by cansleeve

Yes. That’s the point.

4points
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sidechannel
Collapse or expand reply by sidechannel

Most of the replies still argue about how much it eats.

11points
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cansleeve
Collapse or expand reply by cansleeve

That’s why I went back to this bit. The people in the picture matter too.

8points
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mothproof
Collapse or expand reply by mothproof

I don’t agree with its conclusion. But I know exactly the crowd it means.

6points
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teaspoon
Collapse or expand reply by teaspoon

The sample still loads even though the book listing says sold out.

3points
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Big Zoo
wrenched

Why were the vet and the electrician booked together?

Two notices from Bracken Vale in the same week. The giraffe house closes for the vet, then the power goes off behind it that evening.

I know what everyone will say about maintenance happening in a park. I'm asking why the medical visit and the electrical work were booked for the same day. It's a convenient time to do repairs to something the public is supposed to think is alive.

metricsea
Collapse or expand reply by metricsea

Or a convenient time to do two jobs while the building isn't open to visitors.

0points
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wrenched
Collapse or expand reply by wrenched

Then why write two different reasons?

0points
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mothproof
Collapse or expand reply by mothproof

Because there were two jobs.

0points
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brickwork
Collapse or expand reply by brickwork

The power notice says the service yard. It doesn't say they're disconnecting the giraffe.

0points
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wrenched
Collapse or expand reply by wrenched

It doesn't say what the power is for at all.

0points
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cansleeve
Collapse or expand reply by cansleeve

I read this three times before noticing the notices are from two years ago.

0points
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